Long distance to Semyaza: Mammon thinks about how to express this in terms of the war rules. From afar, Semyaza nods, "This is obscure stuff. Not straight forward." You paged Moloch and Semyaza with '(cc-paging Moloch) Semyaza is playing both sides of the fence. So, he should operate as a member of the high command (which allows you to pick one battlefield to affect with one gambit) on each side... You'd pair against yourself, so you'd end up giving each side another gambit, playable only by you.'. You paged Moloch and Semyaza with 'Then, as a member of Belial's high command, you'd play a gambit against a battlefield for us, against us; as a member of our high command, you'd play a gambit against a battlefield for Belial, against Belial.'. You paged Moloch and Semyaza with 'We'll have to get agreement from Belial, of course, that we can do this, but I think that fits inside the war rules best.'. Moloch pages to Mammon and Semyaza: What +tests would be used? You paged Moloch and Semyaza with 'Probably Semyaza's DEL versus the appropriate battlefield commander's SGY.'. You paged Moloch and Semyaza with 'Like say he deludes the field Behemoth is our side's leader on; he'd test against Behemoth.'. From afar, to Mammon and Semyaza, Moloch is somewhat troubled, however, that the raw delusion skill can be used as a war skill. For example, if I have great spies with lots of propoganda, they only work well if I use them in a strategic manner. Similarly, Semyaza can have the best delusions in the world, but he is limited by his strategy sense to make them affect combat. I thought War+Sgy abstracted all of this? Otherwise, SGY and DEL or TOR or BAL or FLS would be completely interchangeable for war gambits. Moloch pages to Mammon and Semyaza: SGY is not having the raw power... it is using that raw power effectively. Same with TAC. Long distance to Moloch and Semyaza: Mammon believes that Delusion is particularly applicable on this scale because of Semy's rank and its nature. If we wanted to reflect that he was using it in a strategic/military manner, he should +test WAR+DEL From afar, to Mammon and Moloch, Semyaza assumes how they are deployed matters a lot. "Remember, Moloch. I don't have to have tons of strategy to really cause MAJOR chaos on a battlefield. Ie, Delusion has such influence over perceptions that you really can wield it against non-delusion using foes with some effectiveness. Ie, I'm employing this against commanders, not against their armies. I can't create and make distractions with a specific equality to moving troops. Delusion doesn't work like that." From afar, to Mammon and Moloch, Semyaza can turn the entire landscape to cotton-candy, but I can't make fake armies that could delude others. From afar, to Mammon and Semyaza, Moloch nods. But in that case it would be incapable of favoring just one side... both sides would be affected equally. SGY or TAC would permit descriminatory use of Delusion to create a one-sided advantage. You paged Moloch and Semyaza with 'Hence the +test of WAR+DEL'. You paged Moloch and Semyaza with 'Unfortunately there's no way of combining two skills together; the next best thing is combining the attribute of warfare with the skill of delusion.'. From afar, to Mammon and Moloch, Semyaza doesn't care what he has to +test, honestly, "That's the least of my concerns. Just tell me what I gotta +test and I'll type it. :)" Moloch pages to Mammon and Semyaza: We are in danger here of eliminating a signficant aspect of Warfare's abstraction. So if DEL can be appended to War, what Crafts (aside from Alchemy or Conjuration) couldn't be used to diminish the abstraction? From afar, to Mammon and Moloch, Semyaza grins, "I'll leave the decision to you guys. War's your bag :)" From afar, to Mammon and Semyaza, Moloch grins at Semyaza, "I actually like your idea... but I want to integrate as smoothly as possible in to the abstracted RPG currently presented for Warfare." You paged Moloch and Semyaza with 'I can't think of *any* craft outside of Delusion that would be able to be used on the strategic, gambit level. There are plenty which can be used on the on-battlefield level... Hell, most skills can be used on that level, thanks to the military/personal choice'. Semyaza pages to Mammon and Moloch: Someone with Delusion could try to resist my usage of it, Moloch. Ie, like what Hela and I fight about. We constantly battle one another's Delusion. Moloch pages to Mammon and Semyaza: OK. So long as Delusion is noted as the only Craft that can be used on the gambit level (if Rank allows), I'm mollified that the essence of the Warfare RPG is preserved. :) I just don't want to slide down a slippery slope! :P You paged Moloch and Semyaza with 'Granted. I, similarly, don't want to see Delusion's wide-scale use cheated for the highly ranked.'. You paged Moloch and Semyaza with 'Hey, I got a great idea, why don't I backlog relevant parts of this conversation and attach it to the warfare document? :)'. Moloch pages to Mammon and Semyaza: Works for me. :)