Beelzebub pages to Belial, Lilith, and Mammon: OK...here is the OOC scoop on what I'm hoping is going to happen. Sartael has been sent out for quite some time on a mission to provoke Moloch from all sides and to leave devious information pointing at Geryon." Beelzebub pages to Belial, Lilith, and Mammon: It should be a case of Moloch worrying about increased pressures along his borders and withdrawing his support from Mammon. After all, Moloch knows better than to put forth an offensive that will leave his backside hanging with Geryon waiting to pounce." You paged Beelzebub, Belial, and Lilith with 'Sounds fair. It's possible that Moloch will just devote less troops to the effort, of course; make sure you +mail him about it, naturally'. From afar, to Belial, Lilith, and Mammon, Beelzebub nods, "I shall do that." You paged Beelzebub with 'Privately OOC, Moloch's been talking like he can get Geryon to affirm that he won't get involved in the war (though Mammon doesn't know that IC), so your strategy may end up conflicting with that in some way.'. You paged Beelzebub with 'It's all how it plays out, though. I'm not hyper about it either way. :)'. From afar, Beelzebub nods, "It is covert enough that he may have to reconsider. Sartael is posing as a vaguely known knight from Geryon's court and is rabble rousing from Gehenna, Hades and Pandemonium. What Moloch is going to find out is that he is being raided by rebellious groups from these areas and that the instigator is a known memeber of Geryon's court." Belial pages: I'm inclined to go High Command, because it looks like we've got three or four battlefields, unless I'm reading things wrong. You paged Belial with 'If you remove yourself, you've got Vetis and Samael remaining above the Knight level, correct?'. You paged Belial with 'That's two battlefields.'. You paged Belial with 'Knights themselves don't make their own battlefields; they end up attached to each one, evenly'. Belial pages: Beelz is gonna end up involved. Probably will bring Mulciber and/or Meph into it. From afar, Belial thinks we're gonna be limited by the number on your side. You paged Beelzebub and Belial with 'Is Beelzebub actually getting in the fight itself, leading armies, etc?'. Belial pages: Unless Beelz tries to screw me. :) You paged Belial with '(confimring because this is the first i've heard on beelz leading troops)'. Beelzebub pages to Beelzebub, Lilith, and Mammon: If other things don't work out, Beelze will lead an army or two into battle, though he won't decree that he is doing so until the last moment. Belial pages to Beelzebub and Mammon: Well, I basically said I couldn't do it without him and he acknowledged that and made a deal with me anyway...interpret that as you will. Beelzebub pages to Beelzebub, Lilith, and Mammon: Surprise is a wonderful thing. From afar, to Beelzebub and Mammon, Belial is ICly assuming Beelz will end up in the fray of things, out of necessity, though he'll not want to admit it until it's basically happening. Belial pages to Beelzebub and Mammon: As for OOC, well, you guys talk. :) Long distance to Beelzebub, Belial, and Lilith: Mammon tries to figure out how to convey this in terms of the war effort coordination. Troops don't just muster and attack out of vapor, so there has to be a predeclaration of commitment by the point at which the battlefields start getting matched up, don't you think? From afar, to Belial, Lilith, and Mammon, Beelzebub will use air squadrons and attack with suprise. Belial pages to Beelzebub and Mammon: See, it matters, Beelz. If Belial assumes ICly that you'll be leading armies (which he is, at this point), he'll declare High Command rather than lead his own battle, because with four or so battlefields, a high-command gambit is worth it. You paged Beelzebub, Belial, and Lilith with 'That's a fine statement for how it looks IC; I'm trapped more on the 'if other things don't play out' part.'. You paged Beelzebub, Belial, and Lilith with 'As to whether or not it's surprise, that sounds like a Gambit. Strategy vs. the commander of the battlefield you're fighting on.'. From afar, to Beelzebub, Lilith, Mammon, and Rael, Belial _really_ has to go. Take care, y'all. See you this weekend. I'll be checking in. Mammon, if you desperately need to get ahold of me for warstuffs, page me by sending a short email to debpager@evolving.com, 'kay? Beelzebub pages to Belial, Lilith, and Mammon: Okay...here is the deal, on the top of the iron tower is a platform for launching air attacks. Beelzebub will mass his troops within the Iron Tower and wait to see if they are needed. Should his ruse fail, then he will rally his troops and lead them into battle...about 3000, on the sly he will have Mulciber gather a force of about five hundred to bolster Belial's troops.... You paged Beelzebub, Belial, and Lilith with 'Another way this could be handled is if Beelzebub took himself out of the battlefield determination phase, but opted in later. We'll have to run this by other people if we go with that. Battlefields would get determined, and then *later on*, beelzebub's people would get evenly distributed through the battlefields already in existence, supplementing rather than making battlefields unto themselves.'. Long distance to Belial: Mammon will continue to converse and log the conversation and put it up on the web and +mail out the url for consideration by all parties Lilith pages to Beelzebub and Mammon: Makes sense, since he can't make his own battlefield, given that no matter where he lands, there ain't gonna bee anyone to meet him. :) Beelzebub pages to Lilith and Mammon: Mechanics are interesting. You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with 'I suspect the idea here is that battlefield determination is a reflection of openly mobilized forces.'. You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with 'Beelzebub isn't mobilizing until the last moment.'. From afar, to Lilith and Mammon, Beelzebub nods, "His troops are already mobilizing, just waiting till the last moment to deploy." You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with 'So, rightly, he shoudl be out of the whole gambit/battlefield determination phase'. You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with 'deploy, mobilize, you get what i mean. :)'. Lilith pages to Beelzebub and Mammon: Which will give Mammon & Moloch an advantage. Beelzebub pages to Lilith and Mammon: Okay...assuming there is to be a war, Beelz will attack. You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with 'Well, arguable. 2 or 3 battlefields, 3 commander pairings, 3 gambits available. When beelz and his buddies show up amplifying the forces on specific battlefields, it'll be problematic.'. Long distance to Beelzebub and Lilith: Mammon needs that statement to be more detailed to understand it? Beelzebub pages to Lilith and Mammon: He will attack from behind Mammon's forces from the air with considerable force. He intends to rally with Belial's forces after crushing Mammon (no offense) and push Moloch back. Belial's losses are not overly his concern, I was hoping for a two stage battle. You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with 'While that may be the IC case, there's a necessary abstraction that must take place as part of the war (hence 'news war rules' or whatever)'. Beelzebub pages to Lilith and Mammon: Okay, simple enough. Strategy Gambit against Mammon. You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with 'Due to the abstractions, it's implied that Moloch's forces will be fighting around the same time as Mammon's; Beelzebub isn't going to be able to be both places.'. You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with 'Sure, but playing that gambit requires that beelzebub be committed early enough to be in on the battlefield determination phase'. You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with 'In which case we have a little wider theatre of war, and things fall out as normal. The main thing here is that you'd be pairing off against me, in all likelihoo, as we'd be the actual 'princes on the field''. From afar, to Lilith and Mammon, Beelzebub nods, "If there is war, he will fly early enough to insure he attacks Mammon before Mammon engages Belial." You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with '(Oh, and just to confirm: are both your counts in on this as well?)'. Beelzebub pages to Lilith and Mammon: I intend to involve them, though I have not yet spoken with the players. Lilith pages to Beelzebub and Mammon: I know Mulciber expects to be engaged. You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with ''k.'. Beelzebub pages to Lilith and Mammon: I'm quickly running out of RL time. Anything overtly important I can answer now? You paged Beelzebub and Lilith with 'No, I'm going to go ahead and add you and your counts to the war document (http://www.iago.net/base/mammon/wardoc.html), which you should probably take a look at soon.'. Beelzebub pages to Lilith and Mammon: I will...Lilith, sorry to break off the scene. Long distance to Beelzebub and Lilith: Mammon will take a stab at getting some pairings going at some point You paged Moloch with 'The issue -- short version -- is that Beelzebub's in on Belial's side, but is ICly keeping this a secret until the last moment, at which point he's going to attack Mammon's forces. I had to work with him until he could see that he'd have to say 'yes i'm in' as a player, in order to be part of the battlefield determination and pre-battle gambit phases'. You paged Moloch with 'On top of that, you probably have some +mail about things he's trying pre-anything to get you to reduce the number of troops you commit. ;)'. From afar, Moloch nodnods. He is saying this began before the war ever began... I'm ignoring it. Also... because it flies in the face with my actual RP with Geryon. Long distance to Moloch: Mammon nods. I figured it might. :)